Jump to content

New to the gay community... - The Gay Christian Network

Recommended Posts


Hello fellow members.... I am a 24 year old bi-curious female who is searching for what God has planned... I don't know if he has put this curiosity in me to test me or what, but I have recently found out that I am attracted to women. If anyone has a similar story or experience, please message me. Just curious. I am a Christian and love God with all my heart... this is a new experience and new feelings... thanks for your time.

Jay Dee


What is wrong with "Jay Dee"? Like is she a spammer or fake profile? I am just asking, to try to understand , thank you. Andre, BTW, I hope you had a great Christmas with your family, and a even better new year.


I wanted this to be about self acceptance and love because of how much God loves us, thus we should love our selves. But, the site had a tantrum and I couldn't finish. So now I just look like the queen of the.jerks.


this is the little serman I was talking about... The New Testament says that God is Love and Jesus wants to be your best friend. The bible says that God knew you and your trials before you were born into this world. Christ died on the cross so that the veil would be torn that we could speak directly with the Holy Father. By his stripes we were healed, and he was pierce for our trangressions. We are forgiven at the asking. I tried to be straight for my family and friends to my own torture. "To thine own self be true" You can do nothing for God if you are living a lie. that lie wil drag you down so deep you will forget your will to please you heavenly father. and you will despair at the loss of him, when all the while it was you who left. Christians are not perfect, just forgiven. Bsides, if you cannot go to God to whom can you go? Your sister in Christ, kel


What's to understand? Are you unsure about her because she doesn't have a profile pic, or are you normally so cautious? I do know that there have been, and probably will continue to be, many spammers or those with fake profiles; so, to a degree, I can understand your questioning; however, starting off with the words "what's wrong with" so and so kind of gives off a negative vibe. I know I would be a little taken aback if I were a young woman, especially a Christian woman, trying to understand these new feelings and trying to reach out for some assistance.
I know I could be absolutely wrong and for all I know Jay Dee is just another one of those fakes, but I would think that until such time as it is proven to be the case, she should be treated with the same respect as anyone else and without a hint of prejudgment. I mean no disrespect to you; I just wanted to throw that out there.


one more thing, you need to think about. If your family is as closed minded as mine is you have an option call omissive honesty. you dont lie. you just never bring it up. that is part of that to thine own self be true. its called self preservation. you know who you can talk to and who you cant. (Always us for sure) any MCC Church. And any one that you know that truly loves you unconditionally. You know who in your life is most likely to accept it and who is not. you dont have to sacrifice love lines for truth. check out my quote on my profile page, I think it applies here. always kel


Susan I think he was questioning my brief cut off comment. the site had a problem and took what i had started writing and then took a "facial" and refered me to a blog. I went to bed before it would let me back in so I kinda sounded like a jerk. re read my first comment not using my other comments for reference. then youll get his perspective.


Ms. Sullivan & Ms. Duviella, I just asked a frank and honest question because I was caring enough to do so. (I never deem any one a "Jerk" at any time because that would be unchristian) Sometimes, maybe a lot of times, people are unable to ascertain what is being said or meant because on the net, unlike in face to face conversations, you can not pretty much read into anything that is said, unless you ask. That is why I had no comment or responded, to Ms. Sullivan's, response. I know that I get solicited, a lot here, as I guess is true of most sites, there are spammers, especially in chat rooms, with bots and so on, and it's a shame because when you are reaching out for support, guidance or just another perspective, and you get slammed with bots and so on. I know that there was a time I didn't have a web cam, or didn't even know what they were, but as time went along I found out.
I beg your indulgence, because I am not really up to par, working through a bit of depression after I had (As I have since I have left my family and home state of Virginia) tried to reach out to my sister (In real life) and sadly found out the reason why I left "home" in the first place, because she jumped all over me, to a degree, I really felt sorry for her, because many of the things she stated, were to the best of my knowledge and recollection, were false and untrue, but she was doing what she, was verbally, bashing me, trying to set me off, because, well, I better leave it at that. I meant no nor inferred any judgment on my part, I was just expressing concern for both parties or individuals because I didn't know. I wasn't attacking nor meant any offense. I do know that some people can and do use religion for many reasons and some people have religiosity on the brain so much, that they can't see beyond the Word(s), and use it for wars, to degrade people and make them feel bad or worse, as we see have seen between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland or between Christians, Jews and Muslims. I have always thought that the goal of any belief system was to raise people up, from being self centered, selfishness, into compassionate people who care about each other, no matter what.
Words are such poor vessels to convey, the meaning of love, faith, and of the heart and soul, and it is often easy to misunderstand others as it is to misunderstand ourselves for we are all on the same road whether we wish it or not, so be kind and patient with each other.

If I may share these youtube links to further demonstrate, my meaning,.......
You can or may either click on them OR copy/cut and paste it into your browsers window to take you there:

You Tube link : Jesus meets woman at a well


and then this:




If you believe, that I meant any offense, then I humbly beg your forgiveness, for I tell you this in truth, no offense was meant.


Please know that I did not take offense to you, but to the computer server that cut me off and left me looking like the queen of the jerks. I am the one who said that because that is how I sounded with the cut off statement the server allowed me. You did the right thing in questioning my motives in that scenario. It looked really bad. how were you to know that the server cut me off, took what i had started to write, and then said it was taking a facial please go check out the blog. I commend for your courage in protecting what is probably an innocent bystander from a zealot or worse even if it put you in the line of fire. I thank you for your frankness. And you owe me no explanations. You are a good person, the kind I would like to call friend


It is sad for me, that I find more women here, whom I would with all my heart and soul love to call and for them to be my "sister" in real life then my real sister, whom I have tried these many years to reach out to, and she sadly slams me (even more so now that we (GLBTQ) are beginning to get recognized as a legitimate minority for whom (As Wanda Sykes has put it on one of the talk shows she was on: "GLBTQ, people are not asking for special rights, just equal rights under the law, which simply means that we have and are treated just like everyone else! " ) She went on to explain that "Special rights are rights no one else has, and you want to be treated as a exception to the laws or under them, which isn't what Marriage Equality is about." Sadly, me talking to my real sister, got me so upset, that I actually became sick, (I have been living with AIDS since 1982-3 and because of the good ole south red neck Bible thumping hicks I was born into, that the environment was so toxic, that even though I went to Church (Catholic), that they my family jumped all over me. Which really was odd since my (I mean no disrespect saying this, this is just the truth!) was a alcoholic and a prostitute, and my sister more or less followed in her foot steps, where every other word, was a cuss word, or taken God's Name in vain, and me there, looking at them with a heart , not judging but full of empathy praying, that they would some how change.
They couldn't stand me, because early on (between the ages -well it began there- of 1-3 one of my older brothers molested me, if you think that people loathe us now, you have no idea what it was or might have been like back then, and he tried (and by the grace of God and His Angels) failed to kill me to keep his crime secret. Incest ran also deep in my family save for just a hand few who just look the other way or claim to have no knowledge about it. When that older brother attacked me with his evil plans, to keep me quiet, with two attempts which left me with blunt head trauma, which I have still to this day, it has made me a person with disabilities i.e. Tinnitus (Constant ringing in the ears, which at this time they can not address, but the effects takes it's toll on the or my CNS, because it is always there, and some times I wish I was deaf just to be able to listen to real silence, and not just the loud ringing in my ears. (Sorry if this is TMI) My Mothers solution to this "problem' of my sister and I and later my sister and my younger brother and I, was to abandon us, which we were put in jail for the night until Baltimore family services could find a place (temporary emergency care homes, and then long term foster care) my youngest brother Michael was put up straight away for adoption since he was less then a year old, and our birth mother would never see or hear from or about him again. Sadly, I made a mistake. Our mother wanted us (my sister and I back, and of course they pulled out all the plugs sending us pictures of our new home -which didn't last, something you might have seen in Better Homes and Gardens, and most children would rather believe the lie that they (we) were taken from our parents rather then to admit the ugly truth, that we were abandoned. Sadly, since I was the oldest of the two the judge left it up to me, and I really thought with my child's mind, that being with our birth mother, was better then foster care, and for us it wasn't. The abuses continued verbal, physical and sexually, to the point where I as a kid boldly went to child protective services and asked them to help us. My mom saw this as a unforgivable betrayal. So back in the 1960s we moved time and again back and forth to elude the authorities, and the many times I as young as I was, would face the cold night alone and the dangers of sexual predators, running away from home time and again, until finally my family had had enough, and placed me in state run asylums, which if my perception serves me well was a three fold plan in my mothers eyes. 1) No one would believe anything I had to say, because I was in a State Mental asylum , so she and if truth be known, that certain older brother, who also was her incestuous lover or boy toy, that would afford them some protection at that time, when America, (Policemen, social workers and so on wasn't ready to hear the unspoken truth about real families, (America was in love with, the TV (No offense to trans-gender folks, I am referring to the box with the "rabbit ears",) with shows like Donna Reed, Father knows best, The Andy Griffin Show, Leave it to Beaver, My Three Sons and so on, any talk that debunked those myths were seen as lies and heresies and/or born from a sick, twisted perverted mind that was a danger to society, and for the sake of society had to be locked up, in Mental Hospitals or state run asylums, to either be cured, or wait for a cure, but in any case, society couldn't hear and wasn't ready for the ugly truth about itself and or some families, and did everything under it's power, to sweep such dirt under the rug. 2) Maybe, and I mean maybe, my mother was attempting, to not only protect herself and the corruption or truth of what was going on in our home, out, but again here's that word "maybe", she may have thought, knowing full well that that monster of one of my older brothers, would try again to end my life, maybe, she was trying to protect me, which I doubt, because in later years when I was a teen and told her, that he not only did this things, when he wanted to "take his little brother for a ride", he would either beat me into submission in his car or a "Econo Lodge" hotel, where he was drunk, it was really bad. and even worse when he reveled, that he asked me if I knew why he was doing, what he was doing? The acronym "WTF?" hadn't been invented yet, but I am sure, that may have been the look on my face. So I told him honestly that he made me do those things because he enjoyed it. Which he agreed was quite true, but only to an extent. My Brother had a "plan". He informed me that he was going to rent two hotel rooms, joined together by a bath room and that he was going to have a party with his friends. and that what ever," friend" found his way into the room I was in, that I was suppose to do what ever that person wanted-period! and at the end of that or those parties, he would give me money for my part. I can not know for a fact, that you who are reading this may have the same look of horror of incongruity that I may have had when I was so informed of his plains for me. Here is a man, who tried to kill me twice between the ages of one to three, to hide his crime/sin/sickness and to silence me forever keeping him safe, because my mother backed up his stories, of how I sustain my head injuries that are clearly visible today, and which to a degree, left me sick, but only sick in the sense (maybe more, I don't know) that I have to live with the knowledge of the truths that this is my story, this is my reason for being here, to write about this, and that I was made to suffer, because Our Father gave me a most excellent memory, and if that were not enough, then when we were in foster care, I had to relive over and over again, in nightmares the details, exactly, as they happen, over and over again, waking up screaming, with night sweats, that my foster mother was loving and kind enough, I am not sure if I told her, I may have, what I was dreaming about, but even though I was 4/5/6/7/ (ages) she would allow me to stay up late, which I thought was awesome, with sweet treats and hot coco, but she was trying to assist me in handling this truth of horror, this was before my birth mother got us back and before the hotels, and the beatings I received in his car, deep in the wooded swamp area around Portsmouth at that time. Even through I informed my mother who was supportive at first but later gave in, only God knows why.
In my prayers, it was made clear to me, that I was to write my autobiography, not so that I would be held esteem in any manner, but so that eyes and hearts would be open to see the plight of GLBTQ, 1) to touch their lives so that they would know that Our Heavenly Father , loves each and every one of us. and 2) to answer or to be a rebuke, against religious hypocrites who condemn us, as they cheat on their spouses, not only with other women but men as well. Many GLBTQ people accept the role that their parents, society and the various religions mandate that they live a life of lies, for fear that the human race would end if they actually were supportive and inclusive of GLBTQ folks, that they have no choice, and this is the real madness, that make people live lives of self loathing and of fear of discovery. This is what makes people like Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Jr., and Andrew Cunanan. I put before you this question; If society was totally accepting of GLBTQ people, would these people still be sick? Maybe so, maybe not, maybe we may never know, because aberrations, of serial killers exist even in the best and accepting of societies,...........But I being here having gone through what I did go through, while I'll sadly admit, I will never be a normal happy member of society, I didn't become a "monster" or "aberration", but a person of love and of faith.

I am disabled because the chains of my horrid past will never let me forget, the horrors of people (more then one of my older brothers) trying to kill me because I am gay, beat and rape me, and then justify it in the Name of God!
My heart lies heavy with this burden, for I am always at prayer for them who did me wrong, and even more at prayer, that God, give me the strength to really try with all that I am to forgive them. I will never have a normal loving relationship with another person, my past has made sure of that. That is why I must live out my days and nights as a celibate in solitude. Forgive me for saying these, for some of us who have survived It never gets better. We are haunted night and day by the things done to us in the name of the law, society and church.

Each day, is like a person waiting for death, which for us, is a bus running very late, and we seek it's "relief".

My 1st suicide attempt was when I was 9, because my family and society back then and still to this day, regard me as nothing me then a piece of s__t, a monster.

I share with you these records and resources.:

Homosexual Serial Killers
Statistical analysis of the proportion of homosexuality among serial killers,
with a listing of prominent GLBT/homosexual serial killers


The idea occurs to me,...................Who is sicker?
Those who love different and have no choice in the matter OR
a Society, World, Religion(s) Families who disowned their children (Which by the way, I believe should be unlawful!)

Who never grow tried of telling US, that you and I would have been better off dead or never born? That the world would be better off with out us in it..
Through it is clear that they miss a fine point.
Some of the worlds greatest writers, poets, painters and artist, not even to mention warriors, (Alexander the Great) were "gay" .

The shame I believe is on them. Missing the meaning of Our Lords words- "WHOSOEVER" They just miss the point and still called themselves Christians,..........
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and Thou Shalt Be Saved

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 16:25 And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.
27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save


O, the Name of the Book If it ever sees the light of day?
"Doing Time on Planet Earth!"

For we know this is just a testing ground and not our true home

John 14:3

New International Version (©1984)
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.

New Living Translation (©2007)
When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am.

English Standard Version (©2001)
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

International Standard Version (©2008)
And if I am going away to prepare a place for you, I will come back again and welcome you into my presence, so that you may be where I am.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
If I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again. Then I will bring you into my presence so that you will be where I am.

King James Bible
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

American King James Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

American Standard Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Bible in Basic English
And if I go and make ready a place for you, I will come back again and will take you to be with me, so that you may be where I am.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if I shall go, and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will take you to myself; that where I am, you also may be.

Darby Bible Translation
and if I go and shall prepare you a place, I am coming again and shall receive you to myself, that where I am ye also may be.

English Revised Version
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Webster's Bible Translation
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Weymouth New Testament
And if I go and make ready a place for you, I will return and take you to be with me, that where I am you also may be.

World English Bible
If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.

Young's Literal Translation
and if I go on and prepare for you a place, again do I come, and will receive you unto myself, that where I am ye also may be;
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

And if I go - And when I shall have gone and prepared a place for you - opened the kingdom of an eternal glory for your reception, and for the reception of all that shall die in the faith, I will come again, after my resurrection, and give you the fullest assurances of this state of blessedness; and confirm you in the faith, by my grace and the effusion of my Spirit. Dr. Lightfoot thinks, and with great probability too, that there is an allusion here to Numbers 10:33 : And the ark of the Lord went before them to search out a resting place for them.
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

And if I go and prepare a place for you,.... Seeing I am going to prepare, and will prepare a place for you, of the truth of which you may be fully assured:

I will come again; either by death or in person a second time, here on earth:

and receive you unto myself; I will take you up with me to heaven; I will receive you into glory;

that where I am there you may be also: and behold my glory, and be for ever with me, and never part more.





May Our Father, keep you all, under the protection of his wing and as the apple of His eye,. Be at peace, for you are beloved!


I wish you peace and joy, this poor servant who is more unworthy of His love of grace then all of you put together,..........I bid you peace and love.


In response to your earlier post, I agree that on the internet, it is difficult sometimes to understand where someone is coming from and can also be easy to misunderstand someone’s statements. As for whatever Kelly had said, I was not aware of it because I had not seen anything from her on my end. So, I guess whatever problems she was having with the server may have deleted her past comments. Or, at least, I didn’t see it.
As I stated earlier, I do understand why you questioned as there are always people trying to get into these groups and cause problems; we do have to be careful. I guess it was just the way you asked that sounded, or appeared, kind of off.
I am sorry you are having problems with your sister. I do hope and pray that one day God will touch her heart and open her eyes to the truth so that your relationship with her can be one of love and respect.


Jay Dee, welcome to this site, Andre is our spiritual leader and I didn't come out until July at 52, so God has plans for all of us we just don't know what they are, again welcome!


I am both humbled and honored that our Sister Marianne Messer, holds this poor clay vessel in such high esteem, and thank you Sister Susan for your kind response, I can not in humility, hold myself in such high regard or with the heavy weight of the responsibility of souls that may be committed into my care should they wish to follow me or not, I can not say.
I some how feel a kinship with St Benedict and St Anthony of the desert, for in these sense that I wish to praise God and love Him in all that I do and offer no offense to no one, even if it cost me my life.

Both of these men I am sure that there are woman that did the same thing, with drew from society so that they could live a life of love, work, prayer, contemplation in solitude, .......however, people did follow them, and their examples, even if they didn't wish it.

their stories are here from Wikipedia:



I am a humble and unlearned person, which (I do love to read and learn, but that doesn't make me wiser then anyone else or even capable of donning a title; such as "spiritual leader", I do not say these in any way to offend or rebuke or in any way admonish our beloved Sister Marianne, which God be praise that she is here with us with her love and support and prayers).

It's just that I am but a flame blowing in the wind of times and change, and I would never wish for any one to stumble or fall because they "followed" me.
When I was a child, and was place for a time in a children's home, they asked me as it was their responsibility to send each child to a Church, Temple or Mosque of their religion, a world I was not sure of at 8 years old. So then the House parents asked me, if I was a "Jew", (It wasn't that I didn't want to be one, for I had no idea what a "Jew", was, but what caught my attention was the hidden contempt, which though I was young I was quick enough to catch, in the tone they spoke the word with) so I said no, then they asked me if I was a Catholic, or Protestant , and if I was a Protestant, then what "denomination"?
And I thought to myself, how can they talk this way to such a young child who has no idea of what they are saying or the meaning there of?! It was like they were asking me questions in a foreign tongue, and the very best I could do was to decipher their meaning, by which, You may have had this experience, if someone was talking about you, in another language, you may not have known for sure their meaning or what it was that they were saying be it good or bad, but you rely on your experience, that you might be able to get a sense of it by their tones, maybe? In any case, I sense when they said the word "Catholic" , it was with a certain reverence and awe, and even almost before I could tell them, they had decided that I must be Jewish, because I didn't know what they where asking me, to which I objected to, because I didn't want to go somewhere on a Friday or Saturday, while everyone else (all the other kids) went on a Sunday! I am sure maybe some of you think this is quite funny but for a 8 year old, it was a grave matter. It's almost the same as being "gay" at that age, and no one knows either what to say or do or how they should react about it. From most of what I have read, most children have a good idea what their sexual orientation is by the time they are 6. They may not know for sure, but there is a certain sense, that we or I am different then others, and back in the fifties and sixties they had stop burning us at the stake, well in most countries but we are still put to death or in jail in many countries, you can check this out at Change.org under gay rights or www.amnesty.org/ or Human Rights Campaign at www.hrc.org/ .
I hope that this writing is full enough of grammatical and spelling errors that you can see, that I am way too poor in speech, or that I am not wise in the wisdom of spiritual matters.
Thus it is written and said:

1 Corinthians 1:18-31 (Contempoary English Version)

Christ did not send me to baptize. He sent me to tell the good news without using big words that would make the cross of Christ lose its power. The message about the cross doesn't make any sense to lost people. But for those of us who are being saved, it is God's power at work.

As God says in the Scriptures,
"I will destroy the wisdom of all who claim to be wise.
I will confuse those who think they know so much."

The Lord has said: "These people praise me with their words, but they never really think about me. They worship me by repeating rules made up by humans. So once again I will do things that shock and amaze them, and I will destroy the wisdom of those who claim to know and understand." (Is 29:13-14 CEV)
The Lord said, "These people claim to worship me, but their words are meaningless, and their hearts are somewhere else. Their religion is nothing but human rules and traditions, which they have simply memorized. So I will startle them with one unexpected blow after another. Those who are wise will turn out to be fools, and all their cleverness will be useless." (Is 29:13-14 GNB)

I make liars of false prophets and fools of fortunetellers. I take human wisdom and turn it into nonsense. (Is 44:25 CEV)
I make fools of fortunetellers and frustrate the predictions of astrologers. The words of the wise I refute and show that their wisdom is foolishness. (Is 44:25 GNB)

What happened to those wise people? What happened to those experts in the Scriptures? What happened to the ones who think they have all the answers? Didn't God show that the wisdom of this world is foolish?

God was wise and decided not to let the people of this world use their wisdom to learn about him. Instead, God chose to save only those who believe the foolish messages we preach.

Jews ask for miracles, and Greeks want something that sounds wise. But we preach that Christ was nailed to a cross. Most Jews have problems with this, and most Gentiles think it is foolish. Our message is God's power and wisdom for the Jews and the Greeks that he has chosen.

Even when God is foolish, he is wiser than everyone else, and even when God is weak, he is stronger than everyone else.

My dear friends, remember what you were when God chose you. The people of this world didn't think that many of you were wise. Only a few of you were in places of power, and not many of you came from important families.

But God chose the foolish things of this world to put the wise to shame. He chose the weak things of this world to put the powerful to shame. What the world thinks is worthless, useless, and nothing at all is what God has used to destroy what the world considers important. God did all this to keep anyone from bragging to him.

You are God's children. He sent Christ Jesus to save us and to make us wise, acceptable, and holy. So if you want to brag, do what the Scriptures say and brag about the Lord.
If you feel you must brag, then have enough sense to brag about worshiping me, the LORD. What I like best is showing kindness, justice, and mercy to everyone on earth. (Jer 9:24 CEV)
If any want to boast, they should boast that they know and understand me, because my love is constant, and I do what is just and right. These are the things that please me. I, the LORD, have spoken." (Jer 9:24 GNB)

1 Corinthians 2:1-16 (Contemporary English Version)

Friends, when I came and told you the mystery that God had shared with us, I didn't use big words or try to sound wise. In fact, while I was with you, I made up my mind to speak only about Jesus Christ, who had been nailed to a cross.

At first, I was weak and trembling with fear. When I talked with you or preached, I didn't try to prove anything by sounding wise. I simply let God's Spirit show his power. That way you would have faith because of God's power and not because of human wisdom.

We do use wisdom when speaking to people who are mature in their faith. But it isn't the wisdom of this world or of its rulers, who will soon disappear.


We speak of God's hidden and mysterious wisdom that God decided to use for our glory long before the world began. The rulers of this world didn't know anything about this wisdom. If they had known about it, they would not have nailed the glorious Lord to a cross.

But it is just as the Scriptures say, "What God has planned for people who love him is more than eyes have seen or ears have heard. It has never even entered our minds!"

God's Spirit has shown you everything. His Spirit finds out everything, even what is deep in the mind of God. You are the only one who knows what is in your own mind, and God's Spirit is the only one who knows what is in God's mind.

But God has given us his Spirit. That's why we don't think the same way that the people of this world think. That's also why we can recognize the blessings that God has given us. Every word we speak was taught to us by God's Spirit, not by human wisdom. And this same Spirit helps us teach spiritual things to spiritual people.

That's why only someone who has God's Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn't have God's Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish. People who are guided by the Spirit can make all kinds of judgments, but they cannot be judged by others.

The Scriptures ask, "Has anyone ever known the thoughts of the Lord or given him advice?" But we understand what Christ is thinking.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23 (Contemporary English Version)

Don't fool yourselves! If any of you think you are wise in the things of this world, you will have to become foolish before you can be truly wise. This is because God considers the wisdom of this world to be foolish. It is just as the Scriptures say, "God catches the wise when they try to outsmart him."
God swiftly traps the wicked in their own evil schemes, and their wisdom fails. (Job 5:12-13 CEV)
He upsets the plans of cunning people, and traps the wise in their own schemes, so that nothing they do succeeds; even at noon they grope in darkness. (Job 5:12-14 GNB)

The Scriptures also say, "The Lord knows that the plans made by wise people are useless."

So stop bragging about what anyone has done. Paul and Apollos and Peter all belong to you. In fact, everything is yours, including the world, life, death, the present, and the future. Everything belongs to you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.

I may not be a "spiritual leader" No Offense to our beloved Sister Marianne,
but maybe at best, a good researcher of resources that are already on the net.
Good researcher does not = me being wise, forgive me if I have over spoke myself, not sure why, but I always get headaches when I am here! LOL!
God's Peace and Love and the Light of His Holy Spirit, that shines forth in the love that is Jesus Christ, be with you all in this new year.

Shalom et Benedictus


Isaiah 1:18: "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

New International Version (©1984)
"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

New Living Translation (©2007)
"Come now, let's settle this," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them as white as snow. Though they are red like crimson, I will make them as white as wool.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Come on now, let's discuss this!" says the LORD. "Though your sins are bright red, they will become as white as snow. Though they are dark red, they will become as white as wool.

King James Bible
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

American King James Version
Come now, and let us reason together, said the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

American Standard Version
Come now, and let us reason together, saith Jehovah: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Bible in Basic English
Come now, and let us have an argument together, says the Lord: how may your sins which are red like blood be white as snow? how may their dark purple seem like wool?

Douay-Rheims Bible
And then come, and accuse me, saith the Lord: if your sins be as scarlet, they shall be made as white as snow: and if they be red as crimson, they shall be white as wool.

Darby Bible Translation
Come now, let us reason together, saith Jehovah: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

English Revised Version
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Webster's Bible Translation
Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be white as snow, though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

World English Bible
"Come now, and let us reason together," says Yahweh: "Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow. Though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Young's Literal Translation
Come, I pray you, and we reason, saith Jehovah, If your sins are as scarlet, as snow they shall be white, If they are red as crimson, as wool they shall be!
Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Come now - This is addressed to the nation of Israel; and the same exhortation is made to all sinners. It is a solemn act on the part of God, submitting the claims and principles of his government to reason, on the supposition that men may see the propriety of his service, and of his plan.

Let us reason together - ונוכחה venivākechâh from יכח yâkach, not used in Kal, but in Hiphil; meaning to show, to prove. Job 13:15 : 'Surely I will prove my ways (righteous) before him;' that is, I will justify my ways before him. Also to correct, reprove, convince, Job 32:12; to rebuke, reproach, censure, Job 6:25; to punish, Job 5:17; Proverbs 3:12; to judge, decide, Isaiah 11:3; to do justice, Isaiah 11:4; or to contend, Job 13:3; Job 16:21; Job 22:4. Here it denotes the kind of contention, or argumentation, which occurs in a court of justice, where the parties reciprocally state the grounds of their cause. God had been addressing magistrates particularly, and commanding them to seek judgment, to relieve the oppressed, to do justice to the orphan and widow; all of which terms are taken from courts of law. He here continues the language, and addresses them as accustomed to the proceedings of courts, and proposes to submit the case as if on trial. He then proceeds Isaiah 1:18-20, to adduce the principles on which he is willing to bestow pardon on them; and submits the case to them, assured that those principles will commend themselves to their reason and sober judgment.

Though your sins be as scarlet - The word used here - שׁנים shānı̂ym - denotes properly a bright red color, much prized by the ancients. The Arabic verb means to shine, and the name was given to this color, it is supposed by some, on account of its splendor, or bright appearance. It is mentioned as a merit of Saul, that he clothed the daughters of Israel in scarlet, 2 Samuel 1:24, Our word scarlet, denoting a bright red, expresses the color intended here. This color was obtained from the eggs of the coccus ilicis, a small insect found on the leaves of the oak in Spain, and in the countries east of the Mediterranean. The cotton cloth was dipped in this color twice; and the word used to express it means also double-dyed, from the verb שׁנה shânâh, to repeat. From this double-dying many critics have supposed that the name given to the color was derived. The interpretation which derives it from the sense of the Arabic word to shine, however, is the most probable, as there is no evidence that the double-dying was unique to this color. It was a more permanent color than that which is mentioned under the word crimson. White is an emblem of innocence. Of course sins would be represented by the opposite. Hence, we speak of crimes as black, or deep-dyed, and of the soul as stained by sin. There is another idea here. This was a fast, or fixed color. Neither dew, nor rain, nor washing, nor long usage, would remove it. Hence, it is used to represent the fixedness and permanency of sins in the heart. No human means will wash them out. No effort of man, no external rites, no tears, no sacrifices, no prayers, are of themselves sufficient to take them away. They are deep fixed in the heart, as the scarlet color was in the Web of cloth, and an almighty power is needful to remove them.

Shall be as white as snow - That is, the deep, fixed stain, which no human power could remove, shall be taken away. In other words, sin shall be pardoned, and the soul be made pure. White, in all ages, has been the emblem of innocence, or purity; compare Psalm 68:14; Ecclesiastes 9:8; Daniel 7:9; Matthew 17:2; Matthew 28:3; Revelation 1:14; Revelation 3:4-5; Revelation 4:4; Revelation 7:9, Revelation 7:13.

Though they be red - The idea here is not materially different from that expressed in the former part of the verse. It is the Hebrew poetic form of expressing substantially the same thought in both parts of the sentence. Perhaps, also, it denotes intensity, by being repeated; see Introduction, 8.

Like crimson - כתולע katôlâ‛. The difference between scarlet and crimson is, that the former denotes a deep red; the latter a deco red slightly tinged with blue. Perhaps this difference, however, is not marked in the original. The purple or crimson color was obtained commonly from a shellfish, called murex, or purpura, which abounded chiefly in the sea, near Tyre; and hence, the Tyrian dye became so celebrated. That, however, which is designated in this place, was obtained, not from a shellfish, but a worm (Hebrew: תולע tôlâ‛, snail, or conchylium - the Helix Janthina of Linnaeus. This color was less permanent than the scarlet; was of a bluish east; and is commonly in the English Bible rendered blue. It was employed usually to dye wool, and was used in the construction of the tabernacle, and in the garments of the high priest. It was also in great demand by princes and great men, Judges 8:26; Luke 14:19. The prophet has adverted to the fact that it was employed mainly in dying wool, by what he has added, 'shall be as wool.'

As wool - That is, as wool undyed, or from which the color is removed. Though your sins appear as deep-stained, and as permanent as the fast color of crimson in wool, yet they shall be removed - as if that stain should be taken away from the wool, and it should be restored to its original whiteness.
Clarke's Commentary on the Bible

  • Create New...