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ok this is something that i've never really understood about guys who are deeply fem...you are biologically a man...born with a penis and testacles...and it bothers you when you're referred as a male...and even to those who even have a sex change...change their bodies in order to eliminate any excuse to be called a guy...and also i guess cuz i've heard this a lot...because they feel that they were born in the wrong body...ok well i'm a bit of both fem and masculine...so i guess in a way that's why i don't understand...but i mean to me even if you would go thru sex change & everything...you're still a guy...and no matter how fem you are w/o the sex change...again you're still a guy...i don't like being referred to female because i'm not a female even tho i'm fem...and well that to me makes sense...but i mean that same argument can't be used the other way around...to me you don't have to be hairy, and do a lot of physical labor to be considered masculine...the fact that you're a male is masculinity enough...but that's just me...i don't know how many of you feel about it...but i'd like to hear your thoughts and feelings about what you think it means to be masculine or why fems get so offended or irritated when they're being referred as a man???...


this is so true


Hi, dude. Firstly I think you have a valid point in one respect, if you are male, it is expected logically and socially to be referred to as he him mr or whatever. But I feel every opinion has a flip side. I prefer not to be referred to as she, but on the same token a fem guy or transexual may prefer not to be refer to as he. If I expect people to respect my preference and wish either logically or socially then I expect myself to extend the same courtesy to others. Let me know what you think!!!


It took me a very long time to figure this out. For friends who are transgendered/intergendered or whatever you might call it... I choose to accept them as they WANT to be.. which can be difficult.

Someone I know..and used to work with.. whom I recruited to work where I was working because she seemed competent, interesting, and stuck in a dead-end go-nowhere job, recently began the FTM transition. I'd always known her as Laura.. and it's taken a while.. but I'm starting to get used to thinking of him as Dominic.

This is a person I know I like and respect.. and I can't disrespect this human being's wishes to live as a male. I was shocked as hell to find out that Laura would rather be Dominic.. I honestly had no idea when we worked together.

The offence comes about when you don't respect the choice they have made, and try to pigeonhole them into what you think they are, and they don't consider you have any right to tell them who they are.. they're thought very long and very hard about who they are, and come to a particular conclusion.

As a man, who is "mostly" masculine, with some effeminate traits here & there, I've never been able to understand why someone would want to chop off something as magnificent as a penis in exchange for a vagina.. and I'd never even thought about the transition in the other "direction" until the whole Laura/Dominic issue came into view.

I've never felt any desire to be a woman.. although I'd love the experience of carrying & giving birth to a baby.. I really envy women that.

What it boils down to, is that understanding of the issue is not required in order to accept other people's choices for their own lives. If you don't accept their choice, then you're disrespecting their right to live as whom they see themselves as. It's almost identical to people not accepting us as gays.

I still think "WTF!?!?!??!?!?!?!?" whenever I think of MTF transsexuals/intergendered, but I choose to try to address with them in the manner they wish.

If you meet some trannies.. some of them might very well be willing to sit down with you & answer any questions you might have about how they came to their ... realisation.. of who they are. Generally trannies don't see it as a choice, but simply as who they are.

If you're having serious trouble dealing with them as whom they see themselves as.. try hard to force yourself to use the pronouns they prefer etc.., if you force yourself long enough, it will become second-nature, and then it will become the way you think about them. (This is an actual behavior-modification technique oft referred to as "fake it 'til you make it")

Good luck letting go of your pretensions. If you must.. try for a while to stop thinking of yourself as "a guy" or "a male" and think of yourself simply as YOU.
You're not "biologically a man".. you're biologically *YOU*.. entirely distinct from every other living creature that has ever been. You're not "a bit of both fem and masculine" you're YOU. These other things are just descriptions..just words.. but you are a living, breathing, evolving, unique and irreplaceable individual, and the words.. the language.. to truly describe everything you are, do not exist and never will.


ok 1st of all thanks for your input guys...and i get that we accept these things out of respect...and i'm not saying that i refuse to respect their preference...i only wish to understand why this is such a big issue to some guys who are deeply fem???...i don't know if i can see this as almost identical as people accepting us as gays...because we don't see ourselves as gay...we are gay...born gay...not made or converted into being gay...we're men attracted both physically and emotionally to other men...you can place the hottest woman in front of me...and i'm not gonna be interested...but place the hottest man...like William Levy...whoo...lol...i'll be all over him...anywho back to the point...now to be actually be born a male and choose not to be referred as what you naturally are is what i don't understand...and i see it totally different than being accepted as being gay...now again i don't like being referred as a female because logically i'm not a female...i don't have breasts or a vagina...and even if i were to have gone thru a sex change...i can't fight the fact that i was originally born a man...and no matter how much i want it...it won't ever be so...and i know at the end of the day i'm simply just me...no matter what words i choose to describe myself...and there will never be enough words to describe me...but that's also besides the point...i hope by the end of this discussion i can get a sense of understanding...but well let's see how it goes...by the way...let's try to keep calm during this discussion...i mean we're doing great so far...and i'd like it to stay that way...so let's not start any hostility...thanks...


FTM trannies see themselves as born male.. but with the wrong body. MTF trannies see themselves as born female, but with the wrong body. it's not something they see themselves choosing.

".i don't know if i can see this as almost identical as people accepting us as gays...because we don't see ourselves as gay...we are gay...born gay...not made or converted into being gay."


your all caterogising everyone, into neat little boxes.
just like many other discussions recently
try looking at it from the transexual point of view, and not as a gay girl, or effeminate boy.
the decision they make is not an easy one
many processes have to be done including surgery
and they dont necessary see themselves as gay


well it's kinda impossible to relate to something you've never felt...in other words how can i see the other point of view???...if i don't know what that point of view is...i'm not catergorizing everyone...and i think you're missing the point...i don't wanna know why they become transgenders...and i get that some of them get a sense of being reborn after their surgeries...total different look and different name too...but again pay attention to what i'm asking here...why do some that are deeply fem get disturbed or offended when they're referred as males???...and it's kinda weird seeing transgender as not being a choice...because again our sexual preference is something that we can't control...but we decide what to do with our bodies...so how can it not be a choice and yet still be a choice someone makes???...that question i'll save for the transgender group...if there is one...i'll probably join to ask them that question...anywho...but don't forget my original question which still remains to be unanswered...because i'm not asking about people who are transgender...i'm asking about guys that are still in their male bodies and pretty much dislike being addressed as a guy...


It is impossible, or very close to it, to REALLY relate to something you've never felt. This is why sometimes you just have to accept it. But.. you can TRY to empathize. try to put yourself in someone else's shoes. It just doesn't always work, and often works badly.
I do hope you find someone to answer your questions to your satisfaction.


i sure do too...i mean i guess there might not be that many people on here that feel like that...seein as i haven't had any replies from anyone who feels like that...