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Posted

why is it that the gay community is trying so hard to fix into the straight world. First the baby thing, the the miltry(can't spell), now the marriage thing. I feel we should some kind of equal rights, but why try to make them people accept us? I'm one of the few that not believe in this marriage thing and if I live in CA would have cast my vote to help stop this. I feel that we but ourselves in place and feel that the world must accept us. I was once one of those people that felt that way but as I got older came to the understanding that no one really cares and those that do are under cover and don't want the world to find out who they really are. Who I chose to bring to my bedroom is my business and no ones elses. I don't need approval from anyone on how I live my life. This isn't the same thing as being non-white in this country and we need to stop trying to ride that coat tail.


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Jimmy_McClellan
Posted

Baby, you are hell and gone from the point. Why should I pay the same taxes and not have the same rights? I served my country and fought for everyone's freedom. Why should I stand having mine surpressed? As long as we are surpressing anyone's freedom, we'll never be "the land of the free."


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Posted

We want to be accepted for who we are and what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. To do so, we have to fit in to their society. They rule and they make the rules so if we want to live a happy life we need to fight for our rights and to be treated equally. True, what we do in our bedrooms is our business but that's not how the system sees things. It is for that reason and others that we must continue our strugle for equal rights for not just us but for all.


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Posted

good lord we're not trying to "fix" the "straight world" we're trying to get the same rights as everybody else. THE RIGHTS WE WERE BORN WITH AND THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN AWAY. It's about equality. How could you be against wanting to be treated equally?


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Heebie999
Posted

We're trying to get treated equally, and stop having governments tell us whom we can love, and whether or not we can visit them in the hospital if they are ill, and whether or not we can leave our possessions to them, and a million other things.
It's not about fixing their world.. the struggle is to get them to recognize that it isn't THEIR world.. it's all of ours, and we shouldn't have to live by the rules THEY set for us, but by rules we all agree on that are based on respect for EVERYONE... including us.

Jimmy McClellan: Thanks for doing a shitty job that most of us COULDN'T do!


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Ryan_Bistarkey
Posted

I think the problem here is that you have confused acceptance and rights. I do not think the straight world will accept the gay community if we do have the same rights. I would never force acceptance on to anyone. Hopefully, my actions and my words will allow other people to see past a label. I just want the same opportunities that were granted to everyone in this country.


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Heebie999
Posted

Acceptance here *IS* important. They need to accept that fact that we will *NOT* accept being treated as second-class citizens, and absolutely will *NOT* tolerate being labelled as criminals, monsters, satan-worshippers, rapists etc.. simply because we're gay.


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Posted

Isn't the root of the problem religion?


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Randy_Martin
Posted

I don't have a problem with religion myself. I do have a problem with someone else telling me how I should feel & who I can love & who I cannot. It is my life & freedom they are infringing on. Just because I don't want to get married does not mean I do not want that right. Convicted pedophiles can get married, but we can't. How ridiculous is that?


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Richard_Edwards
Posted

My partner (now ex) was in the hospital. The doctor wouldn't tell me about his condition because I wasn't a relative. I couldn't be his spouse because at that time gays were not allowed to marry. Now we can in New York, hooray. We need to continue the struggle to get the federal government to recognize same sex marriages so we can get the federal benefits.


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Jules_Parker
Posted

The writer who started this discussion, must have been given a really hard time to change there views to the hard nose views they have now, or do they just want to get us talking! I think I know the answer.

Richard has a good point, In the UK if you are not related you are entitled to nothing if you did not marry your partner, or he has not made a will, in the hetro world there is common law wife, who can claim in the same way as a wife can if a will is not drawn up, so having a long term boyfriend is not the same, no common law for him. I knew a friend who had lived with his partner for over 40 years, this was before civil partnerships, when his partner died he had no claim to anything that had been part of there life together - how fair was that? end result he was to be kicked out of the house they had live in all those years, unless he bought it of the next a kin,
now let's come back to Richards point in Hospital, just imagine the partner you love was on life support, and there was a very slim chance of him making a recovery, but his family said, to slim a chance pull the plug, you say no there's still a chance, but are over ruled because you are not related, how would you feel about the law if you had to watch him died and could do nothing, I think shouting at you PM's to have the law changed or same rights and hetro's


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Jules_Parker
Posted

by the way Mark Lewis it got us talking


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Posted

Part was to get folks talking but the other is how I feel. This why should I pay the same taxes issues, I've been and my people have been doing it for years and we are still are. Just because we put a black man in office things really haven't change. In my heart of hearts I do feel this way. No to gay marriages and gays having children. If this is the type of lifestyle you wanted you should have surpress your feeling and deal.


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Tach_Chew_We
Posted

mark its not about gay rights its about human rights were all equal but yes standards are set differantly for us cuz were gay we should be able to do all the same things that non gays do and by the was did you know that in 39 states in the usa a gay person can be denied service in a restrant and ite leagle its things like this that need to change its time we stop calling it gay rights but human rights lkike i say to day i parked my car not gay parked it had lunch not gay lunch we need to get rid of the word gay and make it human like all outhers


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tcross1993
Posted

there is this weird thing where straight people cant look past the sexual act when the word gay is mentioned. the biggest reasons for prejudice, homophobia and vilification is ignorance and lack of knowledge, not knowing leads to fear. if gay and lesbian stuff was to be taught in primary school n high school, that's homophobia gone, and many less people who have problems with it in the future. society has to develop around us.
And i am always alienated at school because hetero is the norm, no one gets referred to at the straight one.. but whenever ppl talk to me, something about me being gay is always mentioned. and you dont want to be known just for being gay, because that is not a big deal, nor is it unusual.

Gay marriage: doesnt every parent dream of seeing their kids get married? yes? many sons and daughters end up getting married. But never gl(bti) kids. so why not give them that option? they are already allowed to be a part of church, there are gay priests, gay preachers, gay ministers and pastors - that marry straight couples all the time for god sake. its like they are human but theyre not. they are still on the outside looking in, but WHY. Im lucky. SSM will be legal in australia soon.


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David_Glynn
Posted

I am 28 yrs of age and still have not come to terms that im gay. I dont want to be gay, i have not come out to anyone to been gay but i am cause i have feelings for men. Its terrible, any advice in what i should do bearing in mind my family are very christian and holly


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Jules_Parker
Posted

David, Your never be truly happy until you except your self for who you are, what's this I don't want to be gay! if you are, you are so except it,
what's in a name! if you removed the word gay, and the word man / woman, what changes,
oh I see you fancy someone or may like to have a relationship with another human being, well I though everyone wants that at sometime in their life, would you feel this is wrong?

I think the problem is you have been brought up in a society that says hetro is normal everything else is not, if you were brought up in a society that says men going with men was normal and men going with women was being gay, you would feel the same way as you do now about being hetro.

It's all about what you think others will thing of you, take the stand, you are who you are, and if others don't like you so be it, there not worth knowing in the first place,

and before you say that's easy for you to say, I was once married have been being blackmailed over being gay and so came out! and told the family, and now never been more happy with my sexuality


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Richard_Edwards
Posted

David, before you come out to anyone, you must first reach a place inside you that accepts who you are. It is a process that takes time. You have been taught that it's wrong, but these are not facts. God loves all his children and he made everyone different - some are tall, some short, some lean, some husky, some straight, some gay. Once you accept yourself and know that the God of your understanding is with you, then you will be able to understand that what others think of you is none of your business. Live your life for you.
A word of caution. Before you come out to family, be sure that you are financially independent of them. I don't know them but some families here in the US have put gay teenagers out on the street leaving them homeless.


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tcross1993
Posted

david:
-there's no gay cure, it is not a virus. Its hard if u were raised to have certain views, but nothing is your fault.

-it is natural, be happy with yourself because u r the same person that ur family loves.. thats the thing, wen families disown, they are only thinking about the sexual act itself and forget that u r the same person u were when u were born. they just get scared with what they don't know/what they perceive as wrong.

-they may already know. if they ask, u can tell them. it may only take your coming out to them to change their views, they may embrace you, but tell them only if u feel safe. You don't need to come out now, but if u do, u don't need to 'label' yourself, pick n choose who u think has 2 know. Trustworthy, non-backstab types.. being gay is only a very small part of who u are

-i suggest if u r afraid they will toss u out, start saving money, get 2-3 decent paying jobs and stash it all away, then move out to a friends or get ur own place.. hard work but u don't want to be unsafe, poor and miserable.
hope it works out whatever u do. b safe


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Posted

PERSPECTIVE ON GAY MARRIAGE
Nobody remembers history or pays much attention to long-term evolutionary changes. We look at our world, our society, and think that it, with all of its injustices, is all there has ever been. And we think things can be perfectly rational, equal and just. Not! The perceptions humans have about gender and identity are programmed by a complex mix of genetic and cultural evolution that has been going on for a million and a half years. The idea of equality for women, people of races other than our own, handicapped people, and gays (all correct ideas, rational, just, good ideas), are less than a century old. And when we ask people to be perfectly rational about ideas of gender identity, we are asking them to (rightly) go against feelings that are ingrained by a mix of instinct and traditions that are not centuries but millenia old.

I have been married to a man, and I personally consider long-term same-sex relationships to be marriages. But in a world that contains mass starvation, grotesque exploitation of every kind, warfare, etc., is equal rights for same sex couples the issue that progressives should be spending time, energy, and political capital on? For me, no, even though it is right and just and will happen eventually with normal cultural evolution.

This injustice is felt in two ways, first in terms of employment benefits, hospital visitation rights, and other social injustices resulting from not being considered legally married. A very large percentage of gay households are childless couples with two white-collar incomes -- I have a hard time getting all worked up about their employment benefit rights. It must be awful to be denied visitation rights. How does it compare to watching your children starve to death, having your loved ones blown up in senseless wars, or being pushed onto the street by a rapacious financial elite?

The second way in which this very real injustice is felt is symbolic. Well, it took women 2 and a half millenia to be recognized even theoretically as equal (if we count Sappho as the first feminist), and even now it's more theoretical than actual. Although homosexual behavior has always been with us, the social practice of an exclusively homosexual lifestyle has been around for about 5 centuries maybe. Let's get some perspective on this.

My husband and I never cared much about recognition of our vows or employment benefits, we knew what we had and the world could take a hike! That was before the issue became front-page news, but I would still feel the same (if I should marry a man again). The world is not brand new, not rational, not just. We are evolving chimps and it's better today than it was yesterday. And it will be even better tomorrow. Get some perspective!


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Richard_Edwards
Posted

@Blanzfilor You said "it will be even better tomorrow." Only if we fight for it. I remember when the police would raid gay bars here in New York. No more, because gays rioted and fought back. Gays will only get their rights by being activists; the world will not change unless pushed.


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Posted

Hmmmm. An alternative view is that culture is evolving all the time, whether anybody pushes it or not. We can shape its changes, and we do so even more effectively when we do it with a non-aggressive attitude (for instance Ghandi, King), when we woo people to our side rather than "fighting for it". Sometimes of course an aggressive stance is required by the situation -- Stonewall was a heroic moment, and I'm proud of it. Gay men were attacked and they rightly fought back -- It was a turning point -- Battles are necessary turning points. But turning-point battles aren't where most progress happens; I think much more progress is made when we reach out with friendship across the boundary line we want to erase. The slogan "Fight Bigotry" doesn't play well with bigots, and they're the people we're trying to change.

On a street near me someone has stencilled a message showing a woman with a raised fist and the words "Fight Sexism!", all up and down the sidewalk. I honestly think a sexist man walking down that sidewalk is more likely to feel hostile toward feminism than to turn toward acceptance of it.

just sayin...


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