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Jony_Star

Interesting Perspectives... - Gay Guys! <3

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Posted

ok 1st of all...were any of you having trouble getting to the gays home page???...because everytime i tried to get on gays...it said that the internet couldn't find the page or something...i was like i'll give it one final try...and behold i'm here...lol...anywho...well i want to hear your thoughts on this topic...people often say life is hard...but i see it a bit more simple than anyone...i think people are who make life difficult really...life is a natural course that we all must follow...how we go about it is different...but when you try to resist the inevitable...you're only making life harder for yourself...stressing out and everything...my friend doesn't believe this to be true...because he found out some time that his mom has cancer...and that cancer wasn't caused by a person...of course there are things we can and can't control in our lives...illnesses obviously can't be controlled in the sense that...when it comes...it comes...but stressing out, or counting the days you or a loved one have left...aren't gonna make you feel better...instead of accepting it and continue with the course of life...i know it could be challenging...and easy to say this...but i don't know...as i said sometimes people tend to complicate things...and sometimes we complicate things ourselves...making life a little more difficult than it should be...i find this to be quite an interesting point...but maybe you guys would like to share you philosophy or thoughts about the simplicity or difficulty of life...


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i agree,i have made my life harder on myself many times--stressing that evryone else at least gets a little action every year,that ppl borrow from me,etc but i have learned to accept what happens and what never WILL happen,and move on with my life,and be as happy-go-lucky as I can every day but its a work in progress lol


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

I dont know if you have been through a terminal illness with someone you love but it is all very well having theory on how you should react and how it really works.The what ifs,the guilt the desperation.Certainly it makes other stresses seem like luxury problems.However stress is stress,sometimes a little of which is a good thing because it means you care about what ou are doing.
I wish i could take all the theory on perspective and apply it to my life.I find i dole out good advise to others but fail to apply this to myself


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Posted

With respect, Jony, I think you could do with a little more empathy. As Anthony described, the loss of a close relative can be extremely hurtful and sometimes takes people a long while to recover. I also agree with Anthony that grief isn't something you can rationalize - it's a deep emotional reflex which you can't really control and which manifests in a lot of different ways. It runs whichever course it runs - it's not something you can really subjugate.

On a wider point, I also don't think your theory works - there are objectively easier and harder lives.

Take me, for instance. I'm a middle-class British young man, born into a reasonably wealthy family who have loved and supported me throughout my life. I've never seriously had to worry about food, shelter, money, security or anything else, really, except my workload. My life has undeniably been far, far easier than a good deal of people in the UK and most of the people in the world. I didn't earn it, I didn't make it that easy by virtue of thought, I wasn't given it by God, I got it purely by chance alone. This is something I accept wholly, gratefully, and make no apology for.

Much the same situation applies to a fair few people in my demographic. Some of them realize it, some don't - but the truth is the same for all of them. Now obviously that doesn't account for everything - it's entirely possible for someone with all those benefits to still have a hard time for whatever reason. And yes, there is some evidence that it's possible for philosophy/spirituality to make a hard life that bit easier to deal with. But I think the wider point still stands. While people can influence it, there are objectively easier and harder lives regardless of what people make of them.


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@Jony, um yh i'm actually the complete oppsite of Nick (lol). everyday is a worry about food, money, street problems, family (that one is in everybody), my mum is a worry cos there is only one of her and 3 kids (including me), but at the end of the day i agree with you in some sense, if anything was to happen to me mum (God forbid) half of me will be crying, screaming, and not caring, then the other half will start to think of what to do next and move on. I'm thankful all this hardship is making me strong, cos where i live someone my age dies every week (i'm 19).
people have different ways of dealing with pain, but i think its how you deal with it that shows what kind of person you are, and then shows how you treat your life.
maybe i'm wrong, i'm still young to have a full say in this hehe


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Posted

don't get me wrong...i'm not saying we shouldn't mourn when we lose someone...again as i said before...there are somethings that can't be controlled...and of course anyone could have a hard life...poor or rich...it doesn't matter...but my point is to see a light out of any tunnel...not really just focus being inside a tunnel...of course our emotions get the best of us...you guys obviously saw what my emotions vented out on the previous discussion...oh and to answer your question...i have had somebody with a terminal illness...and everytime i saw her...i was so happy to see her...her illness never struck me or crossed my mind...i was sad and relieved when she passed away...because she was free from that illness...but well i have a different way of seeing things...so it's good i'm getting other opinions...it's actually really interesting...


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Posted

"everyday is a worry about food, money, street problems, family "

Why shouldn't it be? You need to have those bases covered before you can move on to consider things beyond them. There's a lot of people who have to really struggle to do that.

"anyone could have a hard life...poor or rich...it doesn't matter..."

1)I agree, being comfortable does not necessarily mean that your life is easy, and if you take each life individually (i.e. subjectively) then yes anyone can have a life which is hard - most people have it to some degree or another. But it's vital to look at the bigger picture as well rather than just individuals. Objectively, when looking at the wider image, people like me and my demographic have a much easier life than most people in the world - and this is undeniable. There is no point trying to flatter our egos somehow by pretending otherwise. As I said, I don't have nothing to worry about in life, but I do have substantially less.

2) Yes, it does matter. You argue that "people are who make life difficult really" - that people who "stress out" are responsible for failing to "accept it and continue with the course of life."

The logical implication of your theory is that our lives are only as hard as we make them - if our lives are hard, in your eyes, we're not trying hard enough to detach ourselves and see the good in our plight. What else could be the meaning of what you've said? What else does it offer as a solution? This is patently untrue and in my view actually has some rather disturbing implications. I think people who live hand-to-mouth and stretch their resources to their limits just to keep their homes and to keep food on the table, for instance, are perfectly entitled to 'stress out'. And I don't hold them responsible for failing to be optimistic or philosophical either.


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Posted

well this is something that we're going to agree to disagree...as you have your views and thoughts...and i have my own...there's really no wrong way of seeing things differently...as it's a part of being unique...life is full of colors...we can't really expect things to be black and white...my question wasn't really to analyze what i've said...but rather to give me your insight on how you think life is difficult or simple...i may have not been specific about it...but i'll change that...but for me there's no use in proving someone wrong...because as i said...when it comes to certain views such as life...there are a lot of people who see and feel differently about a lot of things...


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Posted

Oh okay, fair enough.

Personally, though, I have to say I wouldn't see the point of announcing my thoughts on something if I was going to just shrug off a challenge to it with 'agree to disagree'. :P


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silly nick...haha...i know you're always up for a challenge...i'm not really the challenging type...because i'm not really good at making arguments...besides i'm a lover not a fighter...haha...but if there's anyone who wants to challenge you...it'd be interesting...no i just share my thoughts and opinions...and don't feel bad...there is a use in sharing your thoughts and feelings...because i asked you to share your thoughts and feelings on the topic...i may not agree with them...and you may not agree to mine...but it's always interesting to see what other people think and see things...don't you think???...call it a curiosity i guess...


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

I acualy agree with Nick on this,back up your arguments and accept subsequent probing.I find when someone give me a new look on things it makes me reconsider my origonal thoughts and may change my perspective.


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well as i said before...i'm here to see what other people think of the matter...not to win arguments...as you said it MAY change you perspectives...and it MAY not...again there's no wrong way of seeing things...just different views...


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Good point.


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this is something that i see and think...and wel it works for me...i can't and don't expect everyone to understand or to see the things the way i do...everyone has their own views of life and how to overcome the obstacles how they see fit...it's actually the great thing about it...different paths...different views...yet we all move in the same direction in life...always moving forward...


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Yes Jony,i think my issue is the way you spoke about terminal illness,almost as something that can easily dealt with.I found the whole thing gut wrenching and if someone had said to me your views i would have ripped their head off.
I think it bothers me that such a big/complicated subject can be treated so lightly.I hope with your friend coping with Mums cancer that you just sit and listen and dont share such views.We need friends just to be there at times like this not to give lectures on acceptance.


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"again there's no wrong way of seeing things...just different views..."

I disagree with this. Quite often there's no way of telling which views are wrong or right (in which case what you're saying here makes sense), but sometimes there is a such a thing as somebody being wrong.

I'll illustrate this with an extreme example. As I've said here before - for 2/3rds of my teens, I was a Hitlerist. I viewed the holocaust as morally justified (and successful) and privately worshipped Hitler. This is not part of the rich tapestry of worldviews - I was wrong. My worldview was wrong, and while it may sound melodramatic, one of the most affecting and ultimately positive experiences I've had in my life was having such a defining and extensive set of ideas torn down.

Now, I'm not saying that every viewpoint is that black-and-white - nothing in the world is, and for most ideas it's impossible to prove which is better or worse. But not all worldviews or ideas are created equal. Some ideas are lesser than others - and personally, I think this applies to the theory you set out.


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Posted

well Anthony i understand terminal illnesses is a fragile topic...but again my point wasn't that we should be heartless...but rather to continue your path as best as you can...and well let me tell you that i never give out lectures...lectures are for people who don't have the patience and only want to enforce their ways on other people and thinking that their way is the only way and the right way...that's what i think...i only give advice...which is to tell things how i see it...and let people choose how they wanna go about it...my friend's mom lives in england and he's trying to go visit her...when he told me about this...i told him not to let his mother's illness ruin his trip that he should enjoy himself...of course he got a little upset...but only because i didn't really explain myself...he got irritated because everyone was telling him that he should enjoy himself as if it was a vacation...which it wasn't...and i knew why he got upset...but my point was not to let his mom's illness get in the way enjoying his mom...because what good would it do to go visit her only to feel bad for her???...instead he should enjoy his time with his mom...and have faith in whatever he believes in...as for me i can only hope that he does enjoy his trip to england and his mom...and pray for a miracle...

alrite Nick you win...lol...yes some are wrong...but mine is harmless and requires little effort...and well it works for me...i don't really mind the possible fact that i'm the only one who believes in my theory...as i've said before i can't and don't expect everyone to see things as i do...in fact...i don't think they could...even if they tried...and that's ok too...because i'm the #1 person i need to worry about when it comes to my theory...i may care for everyone...trying to help them as best as i can by following my own methods and ideas...but in the end...people have to see things for themselves and follow their own path...some will agree...and some won't...i can't win them all...and i don't expect to either...= )


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

I am not surprised he bloody well got upset,what an insensitive thing to say.My Mum recently died and i am shocked by the way you spoke to your friend.Enjoy yourself indeed.Why not give him a hug and say you can call me anytime and leave it at that.I have misjudged your charicter Jonny,I suggest you engage brain before opening your mouth.People only get one Mum and his time with her will be intement and private and hopefuly beautiful but thats his call.His enjoyment will come years later when he can look back at this time.My friends Dad is about to die and all i did was give him a hug and say nothing.Sometimes its more important what you dont say rather than what you do say.Think on.!!!!!!!


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well apparently he didn't share you view...because after explaining what i meant...he said i was right and apologized...and it's not insensitive...i don't know where you get the insensitive part about it...isn't making your parents happy and enjoying them the best thing you can do???...and i know we only get one set of parents...that's why it's important to always be there and keep them happy...honestly maybe you should take some of your own advice...before actually saying anything...maybe you should ask me about things you dont understand before you start getting all mad and calling me insensitive...


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Insensitive=Enjoy yourself when your Mum is dying.No i dont understand it.
It all sounds like a theory not based on true feelings or experience or reality.You said yourself your friend got upset.Empathy is important as well as a possitive approach.Have your parents died?Anyway why not take some to time to reconsider,you are allowed to change your opinions as Nick says.


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and i said...after explaining what i meant...he apologized and saw what i meant...i mean i'm not telling him to leave his mom at home and go out...or to throw a party...i'm telling him to do anything to keep his mom's spirits up...enjoy the small things that he gets to experience with her...the fact that you see it as insensitive to stay positive for yourself and and your parents...it's something you see and think...and nothing will change that...and of course something so simple and apparently to you...insensitive couldn't possibly be true...but that's fine with me...it's not like i'm trying to obligate you to see things differently...only you can see things as what they are...and you have your own way...as do i...


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I had a friend who had cancer, i'm going to keep it limited, the doctor said he only had 16years to live. We were both in highschool together, and he passed away a year ago near his birthday. As a friend, i knew everything he was going through, massive coughing, massive weezing and there was days he would cough up a little bit blood and i was usually by his side. He was my best friend during high school and middle school. So i stayed by him his life, he didn't have a lot of in life such as luxury but he had an okay middle life. He would miss school a lot he would go to school around once a week maximizing two days. So i would stay over his house and he was in a lot of pain. but he loved going out to the park, watching kids play, hearing the bird especially early in the morning. He would always tell me "the day i die, don't worry" of course it was a climatic situation but i always told him "don't worry i wont" and i didnt. He would read books and he passed away and i kept all his library of books. The way i look at this, life is just lucky for the people who can live while the people who are ill can not. just keep it simple and blossom the friendship that kindles near it. A bond can never be broken.


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that's a wonderful story Robert...and that's a perfect example of what i mean...not to let the illness get in the way...enjoy the small things...always keep your spirits up til the very end...enjoy yourself and others around you...


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Absolutly perfect and very sensitive Robert,you did everything right.Simple kind and loyal to the end.When somone dies it is a very intement thing and you just need to do what is right as my Mum used to say if it feels right do it!
I do think i know what you mean Jonny just a poor choice of words eg "Keep your spirits up" and "enjoy".I think it all pulls everything into perspective with heightened sensitivity.When i have been with somone when they are dying i would say,intimate,beautiful,peaceful i would never say i was enjoying myself.


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well we're different people you & i Anthony...and that's fine...= )


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