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Davan_Death_Hoffmen

Now This Maybe Stupid But Bi/Lez/Gay Rights Should There Be Some... - Gay Guys! <3

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Davan_Death_Hoffmen
Posted

Okay Here Is The Thing Remember When Britney Spears And Madonna.... Went On Stage And Kissed It Was All Kool Then But When Adam Lambert And His Band Member Both Guys Kissed On Stage It Was Just Wrong Now I Don't Know Which One Gets More Judgment Personally i Think Gays Get More Judged Then Lesbians And Bisexuals... See Apparently Its A Big Deal To Be Gay But Its Okay To Be Lez.... I Just Find It Sick That Most People....Think Its A Big Deal But You Should Love Who You Love No Matter What Gender You are Or They Are....I Find it stupid and annoying now what i am saying is there should be rights to this its okay to be lez but is bad to be gay.... i find it sicking .... just to say that... or just to hear People Mumble On About How Being Gay is a Big Deal..... And Be Lez Isn't...Not Saying It Should Be a Big Deal Just Say that its fair to say the males can like what ever Gender They Like ....Not All Men Haft To Be Straight Not All Women Haft To Be Straight... Thanks For Reading ..... If You Can't Read Most Of It Then Sorry...


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Posted

Daven, you are correct in your feelings. Gay men get all the snide remarks but lesbians do not. Some day the world will realize that many gay men contributed an enormous amount to society. The arts, Poetry, Books, Engineering and I could go on and on.

The most important aspect of life is to love your self, first and foremost. Then some day you will find the guy for you and will not care about what others say.


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Posted

AAAURGH..... the grammar. I'm sorry, but I really don't think it would kill you to make your posts more readable. I honestly can't' understand at least 2/3rds of what's written.

I'm not really convinced by the whole 'lesbians don't get any stick thing', they just get it in a different way. Whenever you hear men say that lesbians are 'okay', it's usually meant in a context of 'Phwoaaarr!' Which might not be outright hostility, but is outright misogyny in a way that's particularly hateful. Not sure I'd want to be on the receiving end of that, either. As for women, I have never, ever either heard a woman express tolerance of gays and not of lesbians, or heard of one doing so. But when they do express homophobia, it's usually in a very similar way that you see some straight men express towards gay/bi men.


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David_Dubber
Posted

Hi Davan

I am 74 years of age and when I was a teenager it was - even in those days - alright for two women to be on a dance floor together but should two men be dancing (and not even close to each other) then the band would stop playing until the men had left the dance floor. Thankfully, things have vastly altered but not nearly by as much as they should have done.


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Dave_Mack
Posted

Nick I am sorry to tell you the grammer is fine! And so is the spelling for the most part. That said I agree with Daven and Wayne. There is definately a different set of standards for females in general. Two women can kiss on the street and no one makes a comment. Two MEN do the same thing and they are called F.....ts. Trust me the person who calls ME that better have good health insurance. I am by and large a peaceful man but you start in with me and get in my face and I will retalliate in a way they will find most uncomfotable. I would begin by telling them that's "Mr Faggot" to you and then tell them if they continue they WILL be in the hospital. The thing is most gay men won't stand up for themselves. Sorry if I am abit off topic but the fact of the differences makes me mad.

Similiarly the lesbains that are what one would call bull dykes can be very pushy in their own right. I used to attend DIGNITY for the gay Catholic community. I and most of the other men have left becasue the lesbians have taken over and forced everything they want down peoples throats.

So I have no sympathy when they are being hassled. But back on topic I do agree there is a different standard between the sexes on gay issues..


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Gerard_Chang
Posted

your right ! Gays are the same as lesbian/bisexuals. There's nothing wrong with any of them, they're simply all about SEXUAL ORIENTATION. Why could only female & female hold hands and kiss but not for a guy and a guy ? Is there something wrong within ? NO ! LGBT is nothing wrong ! Amen


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Robert_Connors
Posted

thank u Gerard so true just people r so like against gays that they can;t get past all that and that pisses me off only what I think but if they looked around alot of the things in life where from gays and thank u :-)


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Posted

(@ Dave M. and Nick: the problem I could see was mostly with the lack of punctuation and Misuse Of Capital Letters, but enough with that)
I have seen, mostly in the media I suppose, that there is more lenience towards women showing affection, being able to dance with one another.. I've also noticed straight women can have 'girlfriends', but straight guys have simply 'friends' or 'buddies'. If a guy says 'boyfriend', he's assumed to be gay, and consequently only gay guys use that term. Also girls can wear men's clothes and no one bats an eye, but if a guy wears women's clothes, he's obviously gay/trans/etc. I dont know why girls can do with each other what 2 guys can't in public, but maybe it's because of the str. male fantasy of seeing 2 women getting it on (as if any guy has a chance with 2 true lesbians, but whatever!). Maybe lesbians have been traditionally seen as less of a threat to a straight man's dignity(?) than gay men, and women could more easily be ordered around and overpowered if it came to that. Anyway I agree the double standard is sickening. I guess all we can do it keep pushing for change, and it's coming.


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Posted

"was mostly with the lack of punctuation and Misuse Of Capital Letters, but enough with that"

Which would be grammar :P


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Posted

"Two women can kiss on the street and no one makes a comment. Two MEN do the same thing and they are called F.....ts."

Is this really true? Really? I'm a little skeptical.

It seems to me that a different standard does operate when it comes to lesbian females - but it's no less reprehensible (as I say, it's of the 'Phwoooarr" variety of harrassment). Plus the fact that homophobia felt by some women (and admittedly homophobia is probably rarer in women) doesn't manifest as shouting on the street doesn't mean that it's not there. I can remember the girls talking about lesbians when I was at school - they were certainly different to the boys, but there was still considerable venom there.

I'd be interested to hear what a lesbian has to say about all this rather than a group of gay men...

Also,

"So I have no sympathy when they are being hassled."

Really? You have no sympathy when lesbians get hassled? (Which according to you never happens :P) .


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

I kissed my boyfriend and got the shit kicked out of me by some straight lads.I dont think i will be doing that again.It is so wrong.
Did you hear about the guys who got kicked out of a pub in soho for kissing?
I just loved the fact that a load of our guys went to the pub and had a big kiss in.


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Robert_Connors
Posted

i guess I have been in a diffrent place because all the people I hung out with were straight and didn't have a problem with me and my BF


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Davan_Death_Hoffmen
Posted

I Never really had that in public see when ever i have kissed a guy in public i would just get called faggot and idiot and gay homo freak sometimes i do get kicked around and punched a couple of times but mostly i keep it mostly at home seens i have 3 gay brothers i am kool most people i meet just think i am straight because i keep it on the down low only because i get alot of shit if i spread it out because i go to a all boys high school and pretty much each guy seems straight.... there .... i think i don't know but...

Mostly i would keep it quite.... and only tell some that i know wont react like douche bags.... see my point here is that most lesbians Don't Get ....Knocked Out and nearly killed just because they like the same gender most gay guys get knocked out nearly killed kicked punched and alot more....shit...just because they like the same sex .... i mean i seems to be that all guys must be straight it seems like a rule... or law in life....

I know i sound stupid but it seems like it and feels like it .... i mean seriously ... most people would just act like it's a big deal but most girls are into Guy x Guy..... and most boys are into Girl x Girl ....see its okay for a girl to like a girl but it's a big deal when a guy likes a guy... i find it sicking.... and just really stupid..... and i feel like kicking peoples asses just because its a "Big Deal" to be gay...


Thanks For The Comments!


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Dave_Mack
Posted

Being a gay kid in HS is tough. I too went to an all boys Catholic HS when I was a kid and while I suspected things I was so clueless it wasnt funny. I was too scared to admit I was gay even to myself. I knew it but being a good catholic boy in an all boys Catholic HS it was just taboo! Even when i flunked out and went my senior years to public school (here in the US) I was not out. I didnt come out til I wa sabout 26 and my mom asked me about a guy I was head ovdr heels for. I was living at home and expected shed throw me out but after a bit of bumpiness all was fine til the day she died.

Do what you have to Davan. No one knows your situation better than you do.


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Robert_Connors
Posted

life is to short and u need to take every thing in your life to the fullest and these fuckers with all there shit need to go and die somewhere and go to hell because god says treat thy man as u want to be treated thank u !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and I do even though I get shit on, but I won't do anything different


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Posted

"my point here is that most lesbians Don't Get ....Knocked Out and nearly killed just because they like the same gender "

See, I'm just not convinced you're right. I seem to remember that Stonewall's School Report a few years ago contained testimonies of young gay girls who had been sexually assaulted by their peers because of their sexuality. With respect, I'm not sure the available evidence backs up what you're saying.

Plus, when you say 'most' gay guys get beaten up in the street etc - it really depends where you look, and I think you're being extremely simplistic. When it comes to homophobic violence, in the UK it's more a case of 'it still happens and it's horrible that it happens', but pretty much everyone seems to agree it happens a lot less than it did a few decades ago. The evidence suggests it's now far easier to be gay than ever it was - but that horrible things still happen. It's not the all-or-nothing picture that you're painting it as.


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

I do not agree,Lesbians definatly get less hastle in the UK.Also a bloke was just killed in London and dont forget the admiral Duncan bomb.So queer bashing is definatly alive and kicking.When i was growing up in the 80s I used to get beaten up by skin heads and the last time i took a kicking was only 4 years ago and in a respectable part of London.My lesbian friends agree with me on this one,definatly get less hastle.


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Posted

"So queer bashing is definatly alive and kicking"

I didn't say it wasn't. I just said it's less so than it was - which as far as I'm aware the evidence supports (if anyone has time to dig in to/analyse the hate crime stats, feel free to prove me wrong as my memory could be playing tricks).

"Lesbians definatly get less hastle in the UK."

Depends how you define 'hassle'. "Queer-bashing" certainly disproportionately affects gay men, but it's also far from the full story of homophobic prejudice. To the same degree that gay men are vulnerable to queer bashing (i.e. less than previously, but still significantly so), lesbians are still vulnerable to sexual harassment, which I find no less despicable. If you really want to, you can play the 'well, we have it worse' game from that, but I'm really not sure how constructive or useful that is.


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Well,we agree to disagree then.Its not a case of playing any games its just a statement of fact as far as i am concerned.


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Posted

I'm afraid you're not entitled to your own facts - as far as I'm aware (and as I say I'll happily admit it and retract everything I've said if I'm proved wrong on this point), the available evidence thrown up by research into this disagrees with you, and for all its flaws I'm more comfortable believing that than disparate accounts of terrible things that have happened to individuals.

There's a very good reason we don't simply believe that certain trends/events are the norm just because someone stands up and says 'x happened to me' - even if they're terrible, horrific events, we need to put them in a wider context indicated by research-based evidence. If all you look at it is the events immediately surrounding you, then misrepresent society based on those conclusions, you can sometimes damage our ability to understand and combat its problems.


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Who does this research?How are the questions phrased?How many people were asked?"what was the motivation for the people doing this research?lies,damn lies and statistics" as they say.You can find any so called research to prove anything.Only life experiences and immediate people we deal with are evidence that something is trustworthy.Try and see so called research in a wider context.
Anyway I still stick to my views.


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".You can find any so called research to prove anything."

Which is precisely why you should scrutinise them properly, yes. All the questions you ask are extremely important, and the answers to them will vary according to which piece of research you're looking. But as I'll demonstrate below, personal life experience is no less manipulable and it is far harder to detect when the case is so. You should bear in mind, though, that the research of various gay rights organizations (Stonewall being one if I remember right) quite openly states that things re: homophobic violence have improved considerably, but that it's still there - and that's all that I'm really saying.

"Only life experiences and immediate people we deal with are evidence that something is trustworthy."

This might be intuitively appealing, but I'm afraid it is simply wrong. If you're dealing with just the UK, you're talking about 60 million+ people all with individual and complex lives - if you look hard enough, you can wheel out any set of 'life experiences' that support anything you like. And each individual will boldy declare the objective truth and representativeness of their own lifespan.

Your own experiences and those of the people around you (and of me) represent a relative drop in the ocean - an absolutely tiny microcosm. It's an uncomfortable thought, and one you instinctively rebel against, but we have to accept it if we're going to deal with issues seriously and factually. For instance, as a white, middle-class male living in a fairly affluent area, I know for sure that my life experience is wholly unrepresentative of a vast swathe of the country's population. I know this because the wider evidence tells me. Having the courage to place your existence relatively rather than assuming it wholly representative is vitally important if we're ever going to come close to looking at the world objectively.

It's only properly-done, properly-scrutinised and sensibly scaled research that can tell you the true bigger picture. It may be flawed, but once you know the tricks those flaws are fairly easy to spot. This does not apply to anecdotal evidence.


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Antony_Terrance_Parker
Posted

Hmmm?We could carry on debating this issue till the cows come home.I do concede the need for considered objectivity in all areas including the anecdotal, which is after all what research is made up of.
I love your points about perspective,so true.As my Mum used to say "perspective.....use it or lose it"


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Davan_Death_Hoffmen
Posted

Um To Some What i Do Agree With Antony Here And I Don't Really Think That Research Is Always Right See You Should Trust Mostly Your Friends And Family When It Comes To This Issue And We Should Also Trust Each Comment On Here But Some Aren't Always Right See You Could Be Both Right But Research Isn't Always Right So i Would Haft To Agree With Antony ... On This ....


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Posted

You're both right for the most part, and arguing over a moot, abstract point.


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