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Let's talk about the clobber passages! - The Gay Christian Network

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Posted

There are quite a number of passages in the Bible that have been used to clobber time and again to clobber at LGBT Christians. These include the following:
- Genesis 1 and 2 (the creation story featuring Adam and Eve)
- Genesis 19 (the story of Sodom)
- Leviticus 18:19-22 and 20:1-18 ("If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman... both of them ... shall surely be put to death")
- Romans 1 ("Changing the natural use into that which is against nature")
- I Corinthians 6:9 and I Timothy 1:9-10 ("neither effeminate nor abusers of themselves with mankind... shall inherit the kingdom of God." )

Let's talk through these passages one by one! Anybody wanna start?


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David_Check
Posted

Heres the problem leviticus as it states in the text is guide for israeli priests, and it is also one of the newer books. and to make it all of clear you have to go back to the original text language and when you learn how to translate it you will find alot of the passages we read in english are especially mistranslated not to mention the people who read and study the bible ( I don't care which churches version) will tell you there is no make mention against homo/bi sexuality and in fact there is much mention showing homosexuals just as favorable to God as their hetero counterparts.


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Nicolas_LECOURT
Posted

"Tutu says he still reads the Bible everyday but recommends that people don't believe everything it teaches."
This and more on http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/15/ctw.tutu.climate.interview/index.html
I like Tutu and look forward to him condemning the deviant religious alibi behind the anti-gay bills in Uganda and Rwanda.

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Posted

Wow, my heart just.. I dont know. wow.. First off folks. When it comes to the Bible, we need to understand something about it. We need to understand that we can not take one vers out of text. The sad part is, this is what has happend in alot of the homophobic/hetersexual churches. Folks read one scripture and thinks that it means just that. No, No, No... The fact of the mater is, we need to read the whole vers to begin with. 2nd, we need to cross reference it from Old Testament to the New Testament. If you didnt know, the NT is reflecting from the OT. For an example, in the OT, it was profesised that there would be a Son born from a Virgin. It was profesised of numerous stories and situations. Lets cross reference and not take vers out of text. That is the first mistake that so many of us do. I will be the first to say. I did the same for the longest time. Most important, the OT is stories leading to the NT. Tutu, mentioned slavery, it was a plan of God to lead to the NT. Besides, where in the Commandmants does it say that slavery was acceptable? Where does it say that women cant be ordained? No where folks.. Lets open our eyes and hearts and let God teach us. He will teach you as much as you want to know about Him, pray and ask Him. Last and most important. We have to realize that the Law was fullfiled through Jesus Christ when He died on the Cross for us. Read Galatians, its an awsome chapter and gave me a great deal of closer. If you have more questions, please ask. Shoot me a message. I am currently taking a class on Homosexuality and Christianity. Its an AWSOME class.. May God Bless all of you that are reaching out to him and being such great Servants.
Oh and this post was in ref to Nicolas comment..

Uganda... Please everyone please pray for Pastor Brown from Uganda. He visited our church back in November and waiting to hear back from him. That by its self is a long and sad story.. Thanks you all and God Bless...


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Posted

I have studied the Bible quite a bit and I have even looked for verses that say. "Don't be gay.", "Don't be transgender." ect. As far as I have looked and studied I have not found any that say that (not the specific words I put in quotations, just the general phrasology). There are many verses that could easily be seen as saying not to be gay and not to change ones gender but the main thing that heterosexual christians do is they find one verse and they make it into whatever they want it to be, without putting it into context. You have to first look at the person who wrote the verse, where they were and what their situation was. It is easy for me to say something in a hypothetical type situation to get my point across but it doesn't mean I litterally mean that hypothetical situation. Also, reading the individual verse alone can be very confusing, what one has to do is read the verses before and after that one verse and see what the author is talking about when leading up to said verse.

For example: Deuteronomy 22:5 reads "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."

Well this is all fine and good for most it seems very clear but if you look at the verses in the same chapter you can see a different picture.

Just one verse prior, Dueteronomy 22:4 reads "Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift them up again. "

Well hmm, that has nothing to do with wearing any kind of clothing, male or female. It is focusing on responsibility, not on what clothing you wear or what your gender is. Since it goes from helping your brother with his livestock to women not wearing anything pertaining to a man and vice versa, one would come to think it was actually saying, Don't be lazy, if there is a job that a man is best suited to accomplish do not send a woman out to do it. The same for a woman sending a man to do a job that is best suited for her. I personally assume that the speaker was having some trouble with men and women being lazy and not doing their share of work. My belief is that it was the speakers way of explaining that if you are lazy and don't do your work then you are an abomonation unto God.

There are many other verses that have similar setups but if you read a few verses before and after the particular verse you are focusing on, you will find that most of the time they are not actually associated with what it is that you think they are associated with but have a completely different meaning and purpose.

Oh, and the author / speaker is presumed to be Moses, yet that is dissagreed upon by many different groups so I decided that it would be best to refference said speaker as just that "author" or "speaker".


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Jessica_Roeda
Posted

Matt 19: 11-12 Jesus said, "Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were BORN that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage for the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."


I read a book by gay christian pastors recently called "the children are free" and it is a must read for any who are christians and struggling with their sexual identity. I know I was and still am at times. This passage refers to actually gay men as well because through this book and research of my own I found out that most eunuchs back in the 'bible' days were gay men because they made the perfect eunuchs since they did not have any interest in women. I believe in my heart that Jesus was also refering to the gay community when he said this. So there is hope for those who read the bible. I also read a passage about how David loved Jonathan, Saul's son who he said he loved more than a woman. Jonathan was a man of his soul. So I do believe it is okay and that God will not condemn us for loving another human being, how can a God of love condemn love? I don't believe he will.


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Posted

I totally agree

I think that gender is mental and it doesn't matter which sex a person falls in love with. Look at Jesus and what happened in the New Testament....they had these beliefs but Jesus came and undid all that.. it confuses me sometimes.. but, yeah.


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Posted

The main thing is that it is fine to love someone that is the same sex as you, you just have to avoid adultry and all those icky things. Because being a whore with your body is not ok, but loving someone unconditionally is, as long as you aren't doing it the wrong way.


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Posted

It says in the new Testament that having relations with your family is not okay, but in the Old Testament that's how the world had to be populated. I think the same goes for gays. That's just my opinion, but I know a person or two who agrees with me.


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