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Gay marriage in the UK - Gay Guys! <3

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Posted

Was reading the newspaper earlier (yes I can read, i'm just as shocked as you) and the Government wants to legalise marriage between homosexual couples. In the UK we already have civil partnerships which basically gives gay couples most of the same rights as heterosexual married couples, so I really don't see why the government should go and upset millions of Catholics by changing a holy agreement with traditions going back 2000 years just so gay people can get married in certain churches. I know its an unusual stance but my point is that there is already a reasonably practical framework in the UK that allows gay couples to exchange vows (albeit not in religous surroundings) with the civil partnership system and I don't think it should invade and enroach on the traditions or will of other segments of society, especially when these plans were not a part of the ruling partys' manifesto when they came to power in 2010. All other views/opinions are welcome


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Posted

I worship in my church every SUnday. I have sung in the choir since I was 7yo, first treble and now counter tenor. If I have a faith why should I be denied the right to make a vow before the God I choose to worship in the church I have attended for 15 years?

The God I worship is far more interested in HOW I love rather than WHO I love.


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Posted

Richard,

I respectfully disagree. I've gone back and forth on my own mind about the situation in the U.S. Yes, pushing for Civil Unions would be easier and a legally effective solution...but it doesn't carry the same social weight as marriage. I think marriage as institution needs to be redefined. It sounds trivial to some people, but there is a bit of a social stigma and a feeling of inadequacy that comes from staying, "I'm in a civil union" instead of saying, "I'm married." For the people involved, it makes their marriage seem second rate than their heterosexual counterparts. Personally, I think separate but equal just isn't good enough in this case. I don't think people will fully see gays as equals until they can get married.

As far as religious institutions, I think the decision should be left up to each individual church to decide. I don't feel they should be forced to marry people if it goes against their religious views, but I don't feel they should be unable to if they want to.


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Posted

Don't get me wrong, on one hand i'm all for gay marriage, but on the other I don't think it should be imposed on those churches that don't want it by making it law. I think Tony summed it up perfectly in his second paragraph, I agree it should be an option available to those who want it (which actually include the Anglican Church, so its proving devisive even amongst the different branches of Christianity), however those who are ferociously opposed to the idea should be able to reserve the right to reject allowing gay marriages to take place in their institutions, because democracy has to be a two way street


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David_Cloud
Posted

Richard, in The Times today there's a front page headline and article plus a letter from Bishops and clergy in the Church of England affirming their support for complete equality with regard to same sex marriage in the CofE. They are throwing down a challenge in the run up to the selection of a new Archbishop of Canterbury. Personally, I am absolutely 100% with them, and I have known one of them since I was a young boy too!


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Heebie999
Posted

Here's the operative phrase that debunks your argument:

"gives gay couples most of the same rights as heterosexual married couples"

See the word MOST in there?

Almost equal is NOT equal. No government should be able to tell anyone whom can marry whom.
Also, that legislation would not force churches to perform marriages, it would allow marriages performed in churches that are progressive enough to believe all their members should be able to marry whom they want, to be legally binding.
Also, people who are adults and are still members of a church that considers them second-rate should seriously consider moving to another church, or not being a member of a church at all.


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Posted

I was reading about it in The Sun (i know, not my choice, my older brother buys it purely for Page 3...) shortly before starting this discussion, and although there is strong support for the proposals, there is also criticism from a gay priest from St Albans who shares my concern about forcing unwilling people to carry out gay marriages if it becomes law. All i'm saying is what I said before: yes I agree with the principle of allowing gay marriages and the Church of England have my support, but they need to be careful regarding how they go about doing it, and they need to make sure they allow individual churches to reject gay marriage if they wish because what suits some doesn't suit all. So caution and careful thinking is required before they change the law


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Heebie999
Posted

I see you deleted your comment Dennis, but yours is an excellent reason to have left the catholic church.. but doesn't really add to the discussion of gay marriage.
Personally, I'd love to see the catholic church destroyed within my lifetime, and see Christian actually going to churches that teach Christian values... but I guess that's still inappropriate for this particular discussion.


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Dennis_Mix
Posted

I don't go to church but I belive in god I am one that they call non beliver because of not going to church. God is with us always and we do not have go to church to talk to him.

Alfawolf


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Heebie999
Posted

Amen to that Dennis!


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Posted

I am a former Christian, I am Christened and my entire family believe in God, I used to but I lost my faith due to my sexuality and people treating me differently because of it.

I think that we should allow to be married to the one we love, Civil Partnerships are NOT exactly the same as marriage we have SOME of the same rights and it is LIKE a marriage it's NOT the same, so how can you sit there and type that trash?
You are the first gay person to not want to legalise gay marriage.
I say to the Government upset them Bible bashers (no offence to any Christians here) they may fight the decision but then there'll be a lot more people there to fight back, how they can call themselves Christians with the way they behave is beyond me, things CHANGE it's about time this did to.
End!


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Heebie999
Posted

Richard: You may figure out at some point that you didn't lose faith in God, but in your church. (I did. I considered myself an atheist from my early 20's to my early 30's) It isn't God that teaches hate.. that's some churches, and people.
It's very possible to be a Christian, without being a member of a church that teaches hate.


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Dennis_Mix
Posted

Richard Have faith in God it not him that is one telling this it is church because the pepole have had this drove into there heads by the socalled faithful.Sp put your faith in God he is there for us.

Alfawolf


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Posted

For god's sake i've been at this all day, I don't know how I can make my opinion any clearer:

YES I agree, I think gay marriage being legalised is great news for me and gays across the country. It is a step in the right direction in terms of healing bad blood between gays and the church.

HOWEVER I don't think that it should be FORCED upon religious institutions by making it compulsory law, instead it should be a up to each INDIVIDUAL branch of Christianity in the UK to decide whether or not to allow these ceremonies in their buildings as each organisation will have a different view on the matter. Imposing our will on those who don't wanna take part isn't very democratic (unless the definition of the word has changed in the last few hours).

I'm just a very open-minded person who thinks rationally and logically and consider both sides of the arguement, and to me giving each church the choice seems like the fairest, most democratic way to legalise gay marriage. That way it gives us the best chance of peacefully reconciliating and healing old wounds with Christianity because if we tell them what to do then that will just serve to rub salts in those wounds and make things worse. That is why I strongly believe they should be given the choice, and I will not apologise for that.


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Posted

Richard,

Take a deep breath. :-) I don't think any one is asking you to apologize for anything. I think some people have a very strong conviction in their faith and they took the discussion off topic. Deep breaths my friend, deep breaths. :-)


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Posted

I can understand people having conviction in their faith Tony, I honestly don't have a problem with that. What I have an issue with is people wanting to rush into this, it could potentially cause extreme radicalization against gay people if we don't at least consult each branch of Christianity and offer them the choice. The last thing I wanna see is young people being brainwashed by gay-hating "Christians" because we haven't thought the legislation through properly thus giving anti-gay segments of Christianity plenty of ammo to damage our cause. It just infuriates me that some people can't seem to grasp that potential threat.


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Posted

FUCK THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!


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Heebie999
Posted

There's no legislation being looked at anywhere that would force churches to perform same-sex marriages.
and yes.. fuck the catholic church!


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Posted

I'm not exactly Cathlocism's biggest fan either, it would be nice to see it at least reduced in influence amongst Christians. And from the article I read on the issue it gave the impression it was being forced on churches, so that may have been misinformation on my part (which I will apologise for), but I still believe the whole process should be approached in the manner I stated above simply because its a sensitive issue for some Christians

But then again Christianity isn't my thing: during my own christening 14 years ago I strangled the vicar and almost made the poor old man drown according to my parents. Fortunately for me (not my parents) the vicar had a sense of humour and didn't try and get revenge. Nowadays the only reason I visit church is for weddings, funerals, and cake sales... In my area Christians seem to make fantastically delicious cakes.


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Posted

There IS legislation being considered to make gay MARRIAGE legal, and that will mean that ANGLICAN churches will have to perform the service. It is the ONLY Christian church that can perform legal marriages without a civil registrar being involved I think you will find. How can you allow any organisation to decide which bit of the law of the land it will obey and which it wont?

Can you please explain to me RIchard why I should not be allowed to be married in MY church where I have lived for 16 years and worshipped for 15 and supported actively for 9 years; just because my church decides it does not want to perform those ceremonies? WHat if the nearest church that will perform the ceremony is 150 miles away? Why should I have to pay for all that travel (which could also put off a lot of friends and relatives) or not have the ceremony because I can't afford that extra cost?

I do not think you are really considering every facet of the situation. It seems more like appeasement and that is never good. I know i am older than you (being 16) but I am surprised that you should suggest appeasement. Your parents are not ordained in the Church by any chance? Just a thought, not an accusation.


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Heebie999
Posted

I don't believe the legislation being considered in the UK would even compel the Anglican church to perform gay wedding ceremonies, it would just provide full recognition within law to marriages between same-sex couples.
Even a wedding in an Anglican church requires a marriage license before it can be made official, and that's the part that is different.
A couple who "register their civil partnership" can already have a wedding ceremony in churches that choose to marry gay couples.. but they still only have the rights bestowed unto them by a "civil partnership" which are not the same as those bestowed by a "marriage".. they're ALMOST the same.. but almost the same simply isn't exactly the same, which is the only thing the current legislation seeks to address as I understand it.


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Posted

I just can't see the problem why gay/lesbian couples can't get married in church. In this day and age, it's time to change..


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Tommy_Storey
Posted

Yes,i agree with John. lol
xxx


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Tommy_Storey
Posted

We are now in the year 2012,
and i think that it`s high time
to make HISTORY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tommy,xxx


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Dennis_Mix
Posted

It is time we move into the 21st centry and not the midle ages. I belive that we should get these pepole to wake up to what it is all about,

Alfawolf


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